Science and Universities

Last December, BIST signed an agreement with the Barcelona City Council to undertake actions to promote female leadership in science and to awaken new scientific vocations among girls and young women. As a result of this agreement and on the eve of the International Day of Women and Girls in Science on 11 February, we have a conversation on gender and science with Núria Bayó Puxan, the director of programmes at this scientific cooperation institution.

How has your scientific career been?

My scientific career has been in the field of applied biomedicine, specifically in the development of new drugs against cancer. I did part of my research at the University of Queensland in Brisbane (Australia), where I enjoyed the international, multicultural and stimulating component of frontier research. I also became aware of how important it is to work in a centre that has the most advanced scientific equipment and instrumentation in the field.

I then decided to explore the field of drug formulation and went to work in a dual position in Montreal, as a postdoctoral researcher at McGill University in a chemical group and at the University of Montreal in a pharmaceutical group. I remember a really stimulating time because of the multidisciplinary nature of my research and the need to communicate and add value to both disciplines and to promote knowledge exchange between the two research groups. That was a very intense time, both professionally and personally, when my first daughter was born.

What did you do next?

After two years, the opportunity arose to do research at the ETH Zurich, one of the most prestigious research centres in Europe, and I didn’t think much about it. As it is a city with a lot of research activity, my partner also found a position and the three of us were able to move.

At ETH I learned how important it is for institutions to be well equipped with departments and support staff to make us researchers more effective in our research. I participated for the first time in training programmes dedicated to giving us tools to better manage our research projects, to empower us as women researchers and to define our career plans. At ETH it was very comfortable to work and it was possible to combine research with childcare because we had a childcare centre linked to the centre that adapted to our schedules and the institution worked so that our hours in the lab were very productive. I also received many facilities during my second pregnancy and the birth of twins.

When did you return to Barcelona?

After two years in Zurich we decided to return to Barcelona to transfer what we had learned from our international experience. I was doing research first at a startup and then at IRB Barcelona on transfer-oriented projects while I was training with postgraduate degrees in innovation and master’s degrees in project management to make a professional transition to industry. And just as I was interviewing to enter the pharmaceutical sector, BIST was created.

I was asked to be part of the team driving the new foundation. For me, it was an opportunity to improve the research system, especially the support and professional training of the research community, as well as to stimulate a multidisciplinary workspace with cutting-edge research to advance our R&D&I system. Since then I have been working together with the teams in the support areas of the centres to develop research career support programmes and also with the research community to promote multidisciplinary and collaborative research.

Throughout your career, have you encountered any obstacles because of the fact that you are a woman?

Yes, for example, when I had my first daughter I noticed that my role in the research group was different. I was no longer the group coordinator. Somehow, I was assigned to other projects that were perhaps not so attractive from an academic point of view. Here I saw that my career projections had already changed. We are all exposed to internal and external limiters, unconscious and conscious, and we must constantly work to cope with them. Being more and more aware of how the system works helps me to empower myself and overcome barriers. I could have a very long list of decisions that have been affected by the presence of gender bias.

Do you have more examples?

When I look back, I compare myself to my male colleagues and think of the extra hours I spent on improving the management and coordination of the laboratories because I was interested in the well-being of the people in the research group. Or the hours I spent helping to prepare impossible articles or to repeat the experiment ten more times to be sure of the result. To perfect a presentation, a speech, to constantly learn about each new challenge. Over time I realised that his colleagues spent their time on more productive tasks from a scientific career point of view. And this made me realise that I was overworked to maintain my career as a woman and that I had to improve my time management.

In the professional field of BIST, I have been surprised that you need more time and more dedication to gain professional recognition among peers, to make yourself visible and to be heard as a member in the working meetings.

Why is it so hard to break through the glass ceiling that makes it difficult for women to reach senior positions in science?

Well, there are actually factors that hinder women before they reach the glass ceiling. There is a group of women, for example, who decide not to go into research even before they hit the glass ceiling because they see it as an excessively competitive, highly individual and absorbing field that is incompatible with other personal and professional interests. This is what we call the leaky pipeline.

There is also a group of women who also fail to hit the glass ceiling because they do not see themselves as capable of accessing it, when they themselves place limitations on themselves such as self-demand, lack of security or the well-known impostor syndrome, and perceive external limitations as lack of visibility, lack of recognition, unconscious gender biases in the selection processes. This is also known as the muddy floor. Generally, these are students who have just finished their PhD or once they have completed the first postdoctoral years.

And those who overcome these difficulties, come up against the glass ceiling.

That’s right. Finally, yes, there is a group of women, generally postdoctoral researchers, who come up directly against the glass ceiling and, as much as they want to, have the capacity and try, they cannot gain access because they find themselves in a system with promotion dynamics affected by selection processes with unconscious gender biases, where visibility is valued excessively and productivity is valued merely in terms of scientific articles and prizes. Added to this is the fact that the time of access to stable scientific management positions coincides with the time of deciding to have children or wanting professional stability.

The glass ceiling is also evident for women researchers who want to continue their promotion to programme or institutional directorships and do not find the support and recognition of their community, which is mainly male, to gain access.

Is science a particularly male-dominated field compared to others?

The scientific and technological sector is mainly governed by men, who occupy practically all the stable positions (76%) (group leaders, full professors, professors) and all the managerial positions (directors of centres and university rectors) according to the latest report on the state of science in Catalonia. And training positions (doctoral students) and transitional positions (postdoctoral researchers) are occupied by around 53% men, according to the same study.

What needs to be done to turn this around?

It is necessary to reinforce gender policies and change working environments to make research a professional space of interest to women, so that they can count on your talent and have the opportunity to transform scientific leadership. Moreover, in this whole process, there is a lack of role models in terms of female leadership in science. There is a lack of these figures who make you see that it is possible to reach these leadership positions and that others also recognise and value your potential.

How has the study ‘Women and Science in Barcelona’ helped to define these actions?

The study confirms the data that we had also observed as a BIST community. Knowing that the City Council defined as one of its objectives to solve the gender gap in research, allowed us to approach and propose specific actions to improve the situation. Also with the will to develop concrete actions within the BIST community, to check that they are indeed effective and then to be able to extend them to the whole research system.

Change is slow, isn’t it?

I think it is something that takes time that you can accelerate, but it is not instantaneous. I think that time will improve it and that now everyone, from their own position, must break as much ice as possible, open up as much space as possible and move forward as much as possible so that the people who are just behind have it easier and, from that point, continue to move forward.

I see a big difference between the students of the Master in Multidisciplinary Research in Experimental Sciences (MMRES) that we coordinate at BIST, who are much more empowered, feel much more confident about doing research, have much clearer ideas and the community of young students also recognise their value. And I also see it with my daughters, who have not yet discovered gender discrimination because they feel capable. Each generation is making improvements and there will come a time when this will be solved. It is a very important cultural change.

So, are we at a good moment?

We are living in a time of great change and I see many things changing. There are now men who are very sensitised to the issue, girls who are very empowered and we are seeing the benefit of this transformation. It is a question of all the critical mass at the base being able to access these positions and this becomes normalised. In addition, many men are joining this struggle because they are seeing that it is a possibility to transform the status quo. The struggle is not only women’s, but more shared with men. With this, you gain strength.